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Buying a CJ Rating - Is it worth it?

I have been offered a place on a Citation 525 course starting in a few weeks. All the training will be done on the plane and will not be in a sim. Is it worth shelling out s few more $$$$$$ and hope I can get a job. The school who is running the course is also has an AOC and they say I may be able to get a job with them after the course. What would you do?

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Short answer: No. Long

Short answer: No.
Long answer:
Why on earth would a company hire a non rated pilot on a CJ in these days?
"You may get a job after completion" is what folks are always being told.
The way it goes is unfortunately not what you believe: You do the t/r on the jet, they get some utilization on it (I don't expect a TR on the aircraft without sim worth the money), you pay them good money, finnish and then get calls (if any) like: "We're so sorry, as you can see there is a crysis out there so we don't have any work for you."
Good deal for the company, sold you a TR, got some hours on the jet.
The result for you is somehow different.
Wait for better times and look for serious companies, not semi serious "establishments".
Don't destroy salaries by buying yourself into a job.

The school said no worries

The school said no worries about the job, they said they like to offer jobs to people they know. I think just a few more $$$ could make all the difference for me.

The other idea is go to Ryanair and buy a TR there but that is really expensive and I have heard bad things about Ryan. How much flying will I get at Ryanair?

This is the 'big question'

This is the 'big question' for all low hours pilots. Especially at this time of financial instability. All airlines are, rightly, being very cautious and as a result any that feel they can will try to defer any costs onto other. One brilliant way for them to do this is asking pilots to pay for their own type ratings. I have heard a lot of good and bad stories about this approach and I suppose it depends slightly on your relationship with the school/airline.

The other thing i think is that times are sure to improve and historically the airlines have been slow to react with recruitment. If this happens again we will see another period of significant recruitment from many different airlines. This may open the door to flying jobs where you don't have to pay for you TR. It might be a case of being patient and waiting for the times to improve.

I'm sorry but I have no time

I'm sorry but I have no time whatsoever for the 'pay to fly' idea. It undermines our terms and conditions, cheapens our profession and I'd give up flying (which I love) before I bought into such a scheme.

What's wrong with taking your time to work your way up through instructing, air taxi work and the like? It's all now, now, now instead of enjoying the journey. Let's meet up in 20 years and see who has the best scrapbook, memories and blood pressure.

It is a problem and I don't

It is a problem and I don't want pay but is everyone else is I'm going to left behind. What can I do, not get a flying job or pay a few thousand and get my career underway? It's easy for you with your thousands of hours but so hard for me.

I still don't know what I should do?

Hi Cross Wind. I sympathise

Hi Cross Wind. I sympathise greatly with your position but realy must echo the advice from others here and suggest that you steer well clear of any 'rating' that is not from an established provider in a fully spammed up simulator. Further, I would imagine that you have already incurred a significant debt in accruing the hours you currently have - why would you want to put yourself much deeper into debt to buy a jet rating and secure a FO position? Sure, with Ryanair you'll get 900hrs per year but there are other options out there. If it was me in your shoes, I would honestly look to build some experience, time and credibility on something small (air taxi startups are now operating in the UK, with VLJs; or some piston survey/photo work; maybe get an instructors rating) and give yourself time to grow your airmanship which, with respect and no matter how well you did through training, will not be credible with a few hundred hours. You will have a blast in the process, as well.

I understand it's probably not what you want to hear but the advice is offered genuinely and with best wishes for your future success. Cheers, Albatross.

Got to agree with Flintstone

Got to agree with Flintstone on this one.

Here in Canada the thought of buying your job is about as insulting as you can get (the notion of flying for free runs a close second). Unsuspecting newbies casually raise the idea of buying a type rating on the Canadian forums and are met with a fierce barrage of abuse from the community. Many of the arguments used are justified but hark back to the era where the profession was well respected and paid accordingly. Sadly times have changed. With the industry going through, arguably, it's worst ever period, with hit after hit, the operators are going to cut any cost they can. There is already an established market for new pilots to 'fast-track' their careers and buy their way into the right hand seat which operators are understandably keen to exploit.

The bottom line is that, in my opinion, the damage has already been done. A precedent has been set and will soon become the norm. I just hope it doesn't migrate to Canada anytime soon. In the meantime I'll carry on fuelling and washing aircraft, cleaning toilets and other fun stuff that comes with "doing my time". ;)

Cross Wind. I wasn't born

Cross Wind.

I wasn't born with "thousands of hours". I built them, sometimes slowly, and I had a great time doing so. It was a slog at times but if you have a licence you're used to that, right?

I don't know, maybe your reasons for getting into this industry differ from mine. My motive was a love of flying with little pay on the side in the early days (but I ALWAYS insisted on being paid). What will you have to aspire to if you go straight to Ryanair and a 737? Why does your first job have to be a jet? What's wrong with flying piston-engine aircraft or turbo-props? Unless you're in your 50's what's the rush?

Sorry but I just don't get it. I've honestly enjoyed the various stages of my career all of which have given me something useful for the next step up. In my experience I'd rather fly (in the bizjet world) with a rounded pilot than one straight from a sausage factory, cheque book in hand. In fact as a recruiter I'd go so far as to say I'm more likely to choose the 'interesting' candidate and I don't mean the guy who once confessed to having been a prostitute :jawdrop:

There are opportunities to

There are opportunities to pay for a TR at the moment all around the world, some come with jobs apparently (Ryanair) other schools just offer the TR, which on their own are a huge risk to purchase.

Have you asked them if they would be interested in paying the TR for you, then you work for them and be bonded for 1,2 or 3 years etc? Then you might see what the chances of a job are. 

I think the days of bonds

I think the days of bonds maybe gone for a while but, as a former bonded pilot I really liked the arrangement. 3 years on a type in company is just long enough to learn the plane and SOPs. No one really can complain about bonding.

I think we need to stick together and encourage the employers to pay for the types ratings and then employ us with or without a bond. I can understand how Cross Wind feels but I think maybe the TRTO wants you sell you a TR while their plane is not flying on charters.

We are at the bottom of the market now....give it a few months and the outlook maybe better.

I paid a fortune for my

I paid a fortune for my license and I will pay whatever it takes to get my investment back. Pay for a type rating will not make any problems for me. I will pay and laugh at the pilots who wait and don't do buying of type ratings. In Spain lots of pilots make payment just to get interviews and I will do the same.

I think the site has its

I think the site has its first troll.

I think alot of people are

I think alot of people are forgetting that low houred pilots are stuck in a Catch 22 situation i.e need experience for the job but cant get experience because you need a job to get it!! Thats why these TRTO and line training packages are making a fortne because they found a gap in the market.
Fact is its easier to say to go and do a FI rating or turbo prop or air taxi than it really is because theres no jobs even doing that. There are no jobs as an FI because every mother and their son is doing it or the turbo prop scene is just as dry unless you have time on type. The fact is a pilots job is getting easier and easier by the day with technology getting better, and now every one can fly for around a pound or so we are merley seen as glorified bus drivers!! Back in the day when flying was for people who had money and pilots actually flew the plane you was getting everything paid for and the pilots were seen as professionals that had alot of skill that the average joe bloggs didnt have.
ITC used to be the same, hardly anyone had a computer and when they broke the Technician fixed it and made £40/hr now everyone pretty much owns a pc and does ICT courses so know the rate of pay will go down because alot of people have the same skill.

J.Knight

Jamie you are right.  It is

Jamie you are right.  It is not ideal but we all have to do what can to get on.  I would buy a TR if it made financial sense e.g. there was a guarantee to a job and there was no other option.  I have to say it would be my last choice.  I came via the FI and corporate route and I was very lucky to work for a great employer who paid well.

Times are tough now but, I'm sure things will get better.

I want to become an

I want to become an instructor but I want to do it for the right reasons, not to just hour build and do it because there is no other jobs out there, I personally think its wrong on the student! As you know already Richard you know where I stand from when we spoke on the phone but im not going to mention it on here because all hell would break loose and it will become another Prune site. I think alot of people "Tar with the same brush" because sometimes sitting around doing nothing is not an option or worst option especially if you just decided to do a career change and hit by the recession. PTF and SSTR are here to stay till a big crash( s ) happens thats a fact and apparently low cost carriers cause alot of these problems so why cant they limit the amount of low cost carriers? Or even better stop making the requirements sky high make them more realistic. If the requirements are simply fATPL 300-500 hours then wouldnt need this pay for line flying hours to get a job.

J.Knight